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So how paid off are the ESRB?

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  3. So how paid off are the ESRB?

User Info: su27Chaos

su27Chaos
1 month ago#81
Orestes417 posted...
For it to be the legal definition of gambling it has to have value.


thats the biggest loophole then. they really need to redefine because csgo could defend it because it doesn't have value. it's the people who put the value in those items.
I like my beer like I like my violence...
Domestic.

User Info: Lienhart

Lienhart
1 month ago#82
su27Chaos posted...
Orestes417 posted...
For it to be the legal definition of gambling it has to have value.


thats the biggest loophole then. they really need to redefine because csgo could defend it because it doesn't have value. it's the people who put the value in those items.


That's how Konami gets away with it and why they stopped making games; their gambling machines made them s*** tons more money.

User Info: Orestes417

Orestes417
1 month ago#83
su27Chaos posted...
Orestes417 posted...
For it to be the legal definition of gambling it has to have value.


thats the biggest loophole then. they really need to redefine because csgo could defend it because it doesn't have value. it's the people who put the value in those items.


You're a little confused there chief. The items in CS:GO have value because trading exists and through said trading the market sets the value of the items. Overwatch is a closed system. You're paying to speed up what you'd 100 percent eventually get regardless through gameplay.
When nothing remains everything becomes possible.

User Info: Lienhart

Lienhart
1 month ago#84
Orestes417 posted...
su27Chaos posted...
Orestes417 posted...
For it to be the legal definition of gambling it has to have value.


thats the biggest loophole then. they really need to redefine because csgo could defend it because it doesn't have value. it's the people who put the value in those items.


You're a little confused there chief. The items in CS:GO have value because trading exists and through said trading the market sets the value of the items. Overwatch is a closed system. You're paying to speed up what you'd 100 percent eventually get regardless through gameplay.


That is no different than pachinko machines. Both are not legally gambling but they are, definitely, f***ing gambling lol

User Info: Orestes417

Orestes417
1 month ago#85
Lienhart posted...
Orestes417 posted...
su27Chaos posted...
Orestes417 posted...
For it to be the legal definition of gambling it has to have value.


thats the biggest loophole then. they really need to redefine because csgo could defend it because it doesn't have value. it's the people who put the value in those items.


You're a little confused there chief. The items in CS:GO have value because trading exists and through said trading the market sets the value of the items. Overwatch is a closed system. You're paying to speed up what you'd 100 percent eventually get regardless through gameplay.


That is no different than pachinko machines. Both are not legally gambling but they are, definitely, f***ing gambling lol


1. Legality trumps anything you care to say.
2. No it most certainly isn't the same as pachinko machines. Last I checked no pachinko machine on the planet had a 100 percent guaranteed acquisition rate without spending a dime.
When nothing remains everything becomes possible.

User Info: Lienhart

Lienhart
1 month ago#86
Onto my ignore list you go! =D

User Info: Orestes417

Orestes417
1 month ago#87
Oh noes. Whatever will I do? Oh I know, I'll mock your faulty logic while your head is in the sand.
When nothing remains everything becomes possible.

User Info: Marikhen

Marikhen
1 month ago#88
Orestes417 posted...
One matters, the other doesn't in the slightest.


Given that laws are enforced based on legal definition while cases are influenced and laws are changed by public opinion, I'm pretty sure that they both matter.

One just has to look at the shifts in laws pertaining to marijuana, anal/oral sex and homosexuality, gender discrimination as it pertains to being topless in public, and so on in the US.

Not that it really matters within the scope of this topic, however, since "legal definition" really has no bearing when discussing the ESRB which itself has no legal standing. We can call an orange and orange without need of concerning ourselves as to whetheror not drinking an entire pulped orange is substantially different from eating the exact same orange simply because of the change in presentation and in spite of all other particulars being equal.

Orestes417 posted...
Lootboxes themselves aren't gambling, at least not until the possibility of profiting comes into play.


In legal terms? Probably not.

It's a bit different in practical terms since the biological action/response mechanisms are substantially similar if not identical. Might as well argue that VR sex between people isn't sex because there's no penetration, no risk of STDs, and no chance of pregnancy and in spite of all of the same actions being taken and endorphins being produced.

DaedalusEx posted...
You never thought these http://www.x-entertainment.com/articles/0918/rack.jpg were gambling.


Probably because people are too young to consider gambling as a concept much less consider how it affects them when they're of an age to be interested in that sort of thing, and by the time they're of an age to consider gambling and its ramifications they only see it as harmless fun for children.

Frankly, I consider pre-ordering games and buying them sight unseen, as many publishers would have you do, to be gambling, so I sure do think of those sorts of devices as gambling as well. Hell, random toys in cereal boxes are gambling as well so I see no problem with construing toy dispensers like that as gambling.

For that matter just crossing the street is a gamble where you risk your life versus the reward of getting to where you're going. Hell, I can attest to the risk aspect as this year alone I've been hit by one car and almost hit by another while crossing at intersections and in spite of having "right of way."

Hatsune_Miku posted...
People waste there money due to having zero willpower


Would you say that about cocaine or heroin addicts? If not, why? At the risk of leading the discussion, I'd be interested wherein the difference lies between natural and unnatural acts resulting in dependence on endorphin production as it pertains to addiction and "having zero willpower."

Hatsune_Miku posted...
.... So you want to make it gambling, because that's what this would do. (essentially)


If all it takes to make something "gambling" is a statement of payout rates and legal enforcement of them then how is it not gambling prior to that?

Orestes417 posted...
You're paying to speed up what you'd 100 percent eventually get regardless through gameplay.


Are you though? Are the drop rates in games such that you're 100% guaranteed to eventually get everything through "normal" gameplay that you would through loot boxes? For that matter is this "eventually" in practical terms such as 40 or even 400 hours of gameplay or are we talking about "eventually" after 4,000 hours of gameplay?
Logic is the antithesis of faith, else why is it that faith defies logic while logic denies faith?

User Info: Orestes417

Orestes417
1 month ago#89
Marikhen posted...
Are you though? Are the drop rates in games such that you're 100% guaranteed to eventually get everything through "normal" gameplay that you would through loot boxes? For that matter is this "eventually" in practical terms such as 40 or even 400 hours of gameplay or are we talking about "eventually" after 4,000 hours of gameplay?


Doesn't really matter. But to give you an idea, before they changed to drop system to reduce duplicates though you were looking at a worst case of around a thousand crates, granted that was before several events too, to be reasonably guaranteed every drop in the game through either direct acquisition or buying with coins. You get three bonus crates per week for wins in arcade and one crate per level with each level taking about an hour. Lets say you play... call it two hours a night maybe more on weekends. So if the rough ballpark numbers in my head are right you're looking at around 600-700 hours if you take the bonus boxes back out if your luck is so-so. The number of hours required goes up the faster you try to farm of course.

It SHOULD be faster now with reduced dupes mind you.
When nothing remains everything becomes possible.

User Info: DaedalusEx

DaedalusEx
1 month ago#90
Marikhen posted...
It's a bit different in practical terms since the biological action/response mechanisms are substantially similar if not identical.


The same is true of any chance based activity, including video games themselves, and especially loot based games like Diablo and Borderlands. Is playing Diablo gambling? Should it be regulated?

For that matter just crossing the street is a gamble


By this definition, to live life is to gamble. It's so broad as to be meaningless.
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