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Understanding a Windows problem at the most fundamental level?

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  3. Understanding a Windows problem at the most fundamental level?

User Info: Jason_25

Jason_25
1 month ago#1
I am currently experiencing a problem where "my computer" is not responsive. Because of the terms used, the solution to this problem cannot be obtained through searching. Searching, to me, is already an admission of failure anyway even though I have used it many times to solve a problem.

I see that Microsoft support "incidents" are $500 a piece. But I am not interested in finding a workaround or solution for this problem. I would like to know at the deepest possible level why this is happening in the first place.

I would like to know how to "understand" how to "understand" if that makes any sense. I know so little about technology that I am unable to formulate a plan on how to understand this.

Is access to the Windows source code a requirement here? I understand it is closed source but Microsoft hardware partners have to be able to have limited access for the purpose of debugging.

Is it as "simple" as attaching a debugger to explorer.exe and looking for the point where it hangs up? In my admittedly limited view this would not be enough because explorer.exe is just hanging because of a problem with the windows internals itself (kernel?).

Would this be a good time to come to terms with the fact that I am just not qualified to use Windows because I am not able to solve problems with it effectively?

This raises a more fundamental question: how much lack of knowledge is "acceptable" or can we "get away with" before it becomes a roadblock to advancing the rest of our lives? Even if I were to learn for 20 years how to understand this problem I still would be unable to create a stable political environment, motivate people to build a society, create industrial processes for mining of silicon and other materials necessary for computer production, and create a necessary scientific base for the development of computer technology. That is what it takes to be a real "computer expert". Thus even with being able to solve this problem I am no closer to understanding "computers" than when I started. This thought is one of the most depressing thoughts I can imagine.

Do you remember the end of Deus Ex: Human Revolution where you can choose one of three paths? I chose to send humanity back to the stone age.

User Info: MrSprings

MrSprings
1 month ago#2
.... What the f*** is this even about. Are you experiencing a windows problem or rambling about existential bs on acid?
"Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist."- GC

User Info: OUberLord

OUberLord
1 month ago#3
Jason_25 posted...
the solution to this problem cannot be obtained through searching

Then refine your search. Just about everything can be Googled.

Jason_25 posted...
Is access to the Windows source code a requirement here?

That's not even a possibility, let alone a requirement. Hardware vendors don't get access to it; no one does.

Jason_25 posted...
Would this be a good time to come to terms with the fact that I am just not qualified to use Windows because I am not able to solve problems with it effectively?

No, but at least start taking basic steps. Look at the Windows event viewer. Troubleshoot your hardware. Run updates / update your drivers. Figure out when the last time you didn't have the problem was, and what changed in the interim.

User Info: Jason_25

Jason_25
1 month ago#4
OUberLord posted...
Jason_25 posted...
the solution to this problem cannot be obtained through searching

Then refine your search. Just about everything can be Googled.

Jason_25 posted...
Is access to the Windows source code a requirement here?

That's not even a possibility, let alone a requirement. Hardware vendors don't get access to it; no one does.

Jason_25 posted...
Would this be a good time to come to terms with the fact that I am just not qualified to use Windows because I am not able to solve problems with it effectively?

No, but at least start taking basic steps. Look at the Windows event viewer. Troubleshoot your hardware. Run updates / update your drivers. Figure out when the last time you didn't have the problem was, and what changed in the interim.


This is more a tongue in cheek in rant on the culture of secrecy of Microsoft and other modern technology companies. This information may be by it's very nature difficult to understand but Microsoft does not want people to understand it's operating system to the level that I mentioned. In other words, yes debugging a problem like this is difficult but the nature of closed source and for-profit software makes it that much more difficult.

The typical Windows user from a grandmother to a corporate CIO is just expected to shrug their shoulders and find some way to work around the problem in a case like this. That is no longer an acceptable solution to me anymore. It is a liability I am not willing to accept.

As for your troubleshooting steps - they ignore one basic thing. That is that "my computer" is becoming unresponsive in the first place. A problem like a flash drive misbehaving should not take out the "my computer" functionality. Something like displaying "my computer" but with a "drive busy" text over the misbehaving drive icon would be acceptable.

As to the troubleshooting specifics. It seems that a busy USB 2.0 device that a program is accessing heavily can cause this. The event viewer did not display anything or I would have mentioned it. In previous versions of Windows the event viewer seemed more useful and had more output.

As to the existential stuff, it is a rant that I needed to say. As the world gets ever more complicated companies like Microsoft want to cover up that complication with more layers instead of refactor to a simpler level or attempt to teach the user more about what is going on at a basic level or failing that at least have some better built in debugging information.

More about existential stuff. I have been using Cheat Engine to find base pointers in a few different games over the last few days and it has been difficult and reminding me more than ever how complicated all this stuff is.

User Info: Orestes417

Orestes417
1 month ago#5
My brain hurts.
When nothing remains everything becomes possible.

User Info: mucloud

mucloud
1 month ago#6
Orestes417 posted...
My brain hurts.

My Eyes hurt from that wall of text lol.
Cooler Master CM Storm Trooper White W10 64bit GA990FXAUD3 FX 8320 Vishera 8-Core Core 4.0 GHz 1000watt Rosewell PSU 32GB RAM XFX Radeon R9 390 8GB

User Info: OUberLord

OUberLord
1 month ago#7
I'm not going to quote bits again, but all of it ignores a simple facet of modern computer troubleshooting: Google. If you think troubleshooting something is anywhere near an arduous task now, consider what it was like before you could simply type your problem with a specific device and have a French blog post with all the answers automatically translated for you.

User Info: Fade2black001

Fade2black001
1 month ago#8
mucloud posted...
Orestes417 posted...
My brain hurts.

My Eyes hurt from that wall of text lol.

That's not a wall of text
Put on a smile cause Jesus loves you

User Info: 27_Sandman_40

27_Sandman_40
1 month ago#9
what the f*** is this topic
yankees ws chizzamps

User Info: ajxh

ajxh
1 month ago#10
Jason_25 posted...
This information may be by it's very nature difficult to understand but Microsoft does not want people to understand it's operating system to the level that I mentioned. In other words, yes debugging a problem like this is difficult but the nature of closed source and for-profit software makes it that much more difficult.

Microsoft doesn't want unqualified people like yourself rooting around in their trade secrets. They also don't want their competition to take advantage. It's like those Italian restaurants with their secret sauce recipe passed down for generations; if everyone knew it, then everyone could make it.

It isn't your right to access Microsoft's source code. Even if you could, you wouldn't know what to do with it, by your own admission. If you're so intent on fixing the issue through the source code, why not use an open source OS?
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