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When people say that certain games "didn't age well" is subjective

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User Info: Terotrous

Terotrous
1 month ago#51
Hi C posted...
You could say something like FF7 would fall into this category. Something that was really popular for a long time only because it was an "in" game.

No you couldn't, its graphics were considered incredible when it came out. People were blown away by the cutscenes and the prerendered backgrounds. At worst, you could argue it was category 2.

However, I would definitely argue that FF7 has good gameplay. It's a clear step up from FF6, having far greater character customization through the materia system that was possible using Espers. Unlike in FF6, where you simply gave each character each esper in turn until they learned everything, in FF7 you had limited Materia slots, giving you real choices to make about how you wanted to set up your characters. Additionally, the desperation attack system from FF6 (which many people don't even realize exists) was significantly refined into the much more iconic limit break system.

I also feel that FF7 is in a unique position where its graphics haven't aged as much as some other early 3D games. Sure, the 3D models themselves look like trash by modern standards, but the backgrounds are all 2D stills, which possess an immense amount of detail. Pick a random town screen inside FF7 and just look at how much detail is crammed into the environments, it's clear they were very lovingly crafted, and the choice to use fully prerendered backdrops style gave them far more capacity to express themselves compared to earlier sprite-based games.

Something similar can be said about the early Rez Evil games, as they use a similar technique.
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User Info: Bleu_Skie

Bleu_Skie
1 month ago#52
Terotrous posted...
It's a clear step up from FF6

...

1. FF6: You grind enough, you can learn everything from espers for each character. You have to make choices through the game on priorities. You will still have unique abilities on each character sort of like jobs.

FF7: You grind enough, you can learn everything from materia for each character. You have to make choices through the game on priorities. You won't have unique abilities on characters. Only limit breaks.

2. Limit break was made better. Agreed.
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User Info: Djoser2000

Djoser2000
1 month ago#53
It's a strange issue.

Let's talk about Baldurs Gate (I or II or EE, don't care). This is one of the most influential RPGs in gaming.
Esp. SoA (BG II) was a masterpiece at it's time and is still considered as one of the best games of all time.

But: Would you really say it's better than f.e. Pillars of Eternity or Tyranny if we push nostalgia aside? We aren't even talking about graphics here.
I mean honestly: the mechanics simply suck thanks to D&D 2.5. Everything is strange (stat progression or "THAC0" f.e.) or unintuitive.
Sure, most people will say it's still the best of it's kind (cRPG) unless you say D:OS 2 is the same genre.

The same thing goes for other classics like HL² compared to a modern shooter or stuff like Gothic I or II compared to f.e. TW3.

This does not mean they weren't masterpieces when they came out or aren't still good games as of today.

User Info: Terotrous

Terotrous
1 month ago#54
Bleu_Skie posted...
FF7: You grind enough, you can learn everything from materia for each character.

You can't though. You have a limited number of materia slots. Even if you max out a materia, if you remove it, the spells are gone, which differs from FF6, where if you switch Espers you retain the spells. In FF7, you have to choose which ones to equip. You also have to choose between linked materia, for example if you'd like your spells to be multi-target, you can't also add that element to your weapon / armor, use it as an auto-counter, or whatever else. Also, using linked materia at all further reduces the number of spells you can have.

Now yes, technically at the very end of the game, you can get Master Materia, which allows you to basically get everything (or, similarly, you can use Knights of the Round to trivialize the game), but for the majority of the main game that's not an option.
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User Info: BearShrooms

BearShrooms
1 month ago#55
I'm not sure how anyone could possibly argue this. It's entirely a preference thing. If you prefer the gameplay/graphics/music of older games over newer games then that is what you prefer.

Sure you could say things like gunplay is more realistic, character creation is more in depth, or graphics are more realistic. But the "better-ness" of those situations is an entirely subjective opinion.

User Info: Voxwik

Voxwik
1 month ago#56
A nitpick regarding the older posts but mediocre is not a synonym for bad. It just means middle-of-the-road and not spectacular.

Hi C posted...
Also 1999 Everquest graphics and Velious UI is the only proper way to play the game. It looks really rough but at the same time it's just perfect. Sound effects were awesome, atmosphere was awesome, lighting and colors were awesome. None of the graphics and engine updates they did to it over the years looks or feels right.

As a current player of EverQuest... just no no no. Obviously it's all opinion of course. Other than infuriatingly tone-deaf design decisions taking away player tools over the last two years to the point people look at patches with a snide cynicism, I think EverQuest has only gotten better over the years. I think the notion of pure classes is fundamentally broken design but they do what they can even if clerics are disgustingly more powerful than the other healers (I shelved my poor shaman due to this) and knights get to twiddle thier thumbs while only warriors can handle most bosses or even adds sometimes.

I think House of Thule is the 'recent' expansion I like most consistently. That said I think they did insanely well with the Demi-planes of Life and Decay and the Zelda-like mirror mechanic to travel between them. I can't believe that expansion is two years old...

User Info: Bleu_Skie

Bleu_Skie
1 month ago#57
Terotrous posted...
Bleu_Skie posted...
FF7: You grind enough, you can learn everything from materia for each character.

You can't though. You have a limited number of materia slots. Even if you max out a materia, if you remove it, the spells are gone, which differs from FF6, where if you switch Espers you retain the spells. In FF7, you have to choose which ones to equip. You also have to choose between linked materia, for example if you'd like your spells to be multi-target, you can't also add that element to your weapon / armor, use it as an auto-counter, or whatever else. Also, using linked materia at all further reduces the number of spells you can have.

Now yes, technically at the very end of the game, you can get Master Materia, which allows you to basically get everything (or, similarly, you can use Knights of the Round to trivialize the game), but for the majority of the main game that's not an option.

You also have to choose in both early game. In late game you don't have to choose in both. There is no difference.

EDIT: and the rest of what you mentioned was kind of minor tbh. Not something worth the phrase "... a clear step up" being used.
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User Info: Hi C

Hi C
1 month ago#58
Terotrous posted...
No you couldn't, its graphics were considered incredible when it came out.


Bulls***.
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User Info: arleas

arleas
1 month ago#59
Hi C posted...
Terotrous posted...
No you couldn't, its graphics were considered incredible when it came out.


Bulls***.

If you listened to the hype then yes, they were considered the best. If you weren't listening to the "OMG EVERYTHING HAS TO BE 3D NOW! 2D? BLECH!" stuff that sony was putting out, there were complaints, and I think by the time FF7 came out, people knew the difference between a FMV cutscene and in-game graphics, but technically everyone DID rave about the graphics.

Hype was so thick on FF7's launch that I couldn't escape it. I actively avoided playing it during this time because I didn't want my impression of the game to be colored by the hype. I think it wasn't really criticized for at least a couple of years, and then FF8 came out and people started making comparisons about which was better....
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User Info: Terotrous

Terotrous
1 month ago#60
Bleu_Skie posted...
You also have to choose in both early game. In late game you don't have to choose in both. There is no difference.

You don't have to choose at any point in FF6. When you get a new esper in FF6, you just give it to your various party members until they have all the spells. You don't have to give anything up to learn new spells because once you learn a spell, you have it forever. By comparison, if you get a new materia in FF7, you have to replace one of your existing materia to equip it. There's a limitation on the number of abilities you can have at once that doesn't exist in FF6. Of course, you can also equip materia that give you new commands or stat changes, for which FF6 has no analogue.

Honestly, I feel like if you actually can't see how the two systems are different you probably didn't actually play the games. It's not like it's a subtle change or anything. The materia system is basically a far more fleshed-out version of the esper system.
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