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Belgium Government declares Loot Boxes to be Gambling.

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  3. Belgium Government declares Loot Boxes to be Gambling.

User Info: CursedPanther

CursedPanther
3 weeks ago#41
@AtmosOmega

Very detailed breakdown of the situation.

Wish the muppets can grab a hold of the actual problem before yapping at those who do get the bigger picture to 'get educated'.

User Info: Orestes417

Orestes417
3 weeks ago#42
AtmosOmega posted...
Orestes417 posted...
Paying for a random item and getting a random item is a business transaction. Paying for a chance at an item but having the possibility of getting nothing is gambling.

In both scenarios (casino gambling/gacha) the logic is thus:
A) Player gets the desired outcome they bet on (not any outcome, but the one they are motivated enough to bet on) and Wins
B) They don't get the desired outcome, and they Lose.

That is reality. Anything else said on the matter is just semantics.


You're speaking to the mentality of the customer, which means jack when it comes to drawing legal lines. And legality is the only sort of semantics that matter.
When nothing remains everything becomes possible.

User Info: AtmosOmega

AtmosOmega
3 weeks ago#43
Orestes417 posted...
You're speaking to the mentality of the customer, which means jack when it comes to drawing legal lines. And legality is the only sort of semantics that matter.

And how is "Mentality" defined again?
Ah right: Motivation vs Action vs Outcome; the same three criteria used for all rule of law.

I fail to see the problem you're positing.
EDIT: And your logic doesn't even hold up in real life. If the motivations of the customer don't matter in the slightest, why is there law and regulation (including outright bans) on Casinos, employing literally the very same logic for their entire business model?

I know the answer to that: It's because Gacha and video games are new enough to this issue that they've slipped under the legal radar, but given recent developments (very recent, as in, current) that is changing even as we speak.
If you don't like what a gaming company is trying to force upon you and the market, don't buy that company's games.
Cruel DRM can only flourish if you let it.

User Info: Orestes417

Orestes417
3 weeks ago#44
The problem is you're getting cute with the definition of losing by basing it on subjective desirability. You've received items in exchange for cash. You have not lost anything. You may not desire the items you got, but you received what you were told you were buying when you made the transaction. You may feel like you lost, but you're an idiot if you try to argue you did.

Compare that to gambling where you throw money at chance and run a risk of walking away empty handed entirely. Not butthurt because none of the items you bought were what you had in your head but actually empty handed. As in out your money and not in possession of anything to show for it.

As for gambling being illegal, it's not. It's highly regulated though and the reason for that has more to do with fraud, tax evasion, organized crime, and political bias than anything else. Go read up on the history, it's actually pretty interesting how things came about.
When nothing remains everything becomes possible.

User Info: AtmosOmega

AtmosOmega
3 weeks ago#45
Orestes417 posted...
The problem is you're getting cute with the definition of losing by basing it on subjective desirability.

It's not "getting cute", it's defining human motivation in proper context. Nevermind that all entertainment is based on subjective desirability by definition. (including gambling, fittingly)

You can spin it around all you want, but if someone is motivated to acquire something, spends resources taking a risk and does not get what they wanted, that is, objectively, a loss.

Insurance? Economics? Investment?
Yup. Yup. Big Mega-Yup on that last one.
They all call that outcome a loss, as does literally any form of human endeavor where Risk assessment occurs.

If I mine for gold and yield pyrite, I lost, even though I technically got something out of it.
But by your logic, I should treat the gold exactly the same as the pyrite, even though my motivation and purpose is to acquire gold.

You may feel like you lost, but you're an idiot if you try to argue you did.

So, according to you, realizing "I did not get what I was trying to win." = "Idiocy"
There's nothing I need to add. I'll just let that speak for itself.
If you don't like what a gaming company is trying to force upon you and the market, don't buy that company's games.
Cruel DRM can only flourish if you let it.

User Info: SnakePlisken94

SnakePlisken94
3 weeks ago#46
Good
just your typical butthurt basement dweller

User Info: jjyiz28

jjyiz28
3 weeks ago#47
i'd like to think market forces and capitalism dictates whether loot boxes will continue in certain games.

and about personal responsibility. if you genuinely have a gambling problem, loot boxes are the least of your concerns; its much easier to gamble so much more money away at online poker or online betting, etc..

User Info: Orestes417

Orestes417
3 weeks ago#48
AtmosOmega posted...
So, according to you, realizing "I did not get what I was trying to win." = "Idiocy"


You bought a box of random items, you got a box of random items. Feeling like you "won" is irrelevant to the facts of the transaction.
When nothing remains everything becomes possible.

User Info: DivineWraith

DivineWraith
3 weeks ago#49
In a basic way, loot boxes are gambling. There's varying degrees of impact with them though, and some implementations of loot boxes are straight up gambling, while others are benign.

Personally, if they're going to keep the s*** in check by classifying it as gambling, I'm alright with it. Unchecked scummy practices spread like wildfire, and I'd rather have benign loot boxes taken out of the picture as collateral damage than have illegal gambling disguised as video games being shoved in my face as the next, big, AAA installment of rehashed whatever's popular currently.

User Info: Superemppu

Superemppu
3 weeks ago#50
So gambling isn't gambling if you bet 10€ and you're guaranteed to win at least 1€?

Cause you never leave empty handed, just because you didn't desire the 1€ doesn't mean you lost.
If brute force doesn't fix the problem, you're not using enough of it.
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