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US government declares Loot Boxes to be Gambling.

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User Info: DV8ingSources

DV8ingSources
2 weeks ago#101
KillerTruffle posted...
Again, same thing applies to food products. Once you've eaten the thing you bought, there is no way to trade it away. Its value is zero.

Terrible analogy. Food is required to live. You have to eat to survive and what you eat is up to you. A person can eat something extremely cheap or opt to spend more due to personal tastes. It's those tastes that lead to subjective value.

As for your CSGO knife... It does have value and you can see it on the marketplace. Whether or not it has value to you doesn't matter. I don't care about packing foam, but I'm sure some company does.

Point is, being able to trade and sell brings value to even digital goods. Being unable to do those things means that your opinion on something having value only being personal in nature, is true.
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User Info: Orestes417

Orestes417
2 weeks ago#102
It's simple KT. Once you lose the ability to sell, barter, or trade an item you lose the capability of arriving at an actual value other than zero. It's not a negotiable thing so it can't be subjective in that one special case.
When nothing remains everything becomes possible.

User Info: Mizerous

Mizerous
2 weeks ago#103
Kalirion posted...
revolver posted...
Well America, today you took one step forward with this. Unfortunately ya took two steps back with the FCC announcing its plan to repeal net neutrality today.


More like a crosscontinental drive backwards.
Playing: Final Fantasy VIII/ Xenosaga Part 1

User Info: KillerTruffle

KillerTruffle
2 weeks ago#104
SinisterSlay posted...
Don't mix consumables with assets.

First, why not? A thing you can buy is a thing you can buy. Second, why do you consider loot boxes (or their contents) to be assets? Why not consider them consumables since opening the box "uses up" that chance to open, and the stuff you get is permanently tied to your account much like eating a banana "permanently ties" it to you.

And regardless, that's only a part of my point. The other part that keeps being glossed over is the fact that whether you can resell something or not, that thing is still worth only as much as someone else is willing to pay for it. Its value is 100% subjective. Period.
"How do I get rid of a Trojan Horse?" -Sailor_Kakashi
"Leave it outside the gates of Troy overnight." -Davel23

User Info: SinisterSlay

SinisterSlay
2 weeks ago#105
KillerTruffle posted...
SinisterSlay posted...
Don't mix consumables with assets.

First, why not? A thing you can buy is a thing you can buy. Second, why do you consider loot boxes (or their contents) to be assets? Why not consider them consumables since opening the box "uses up" that chance to open, and the stuff you get is permanently tied to your account much like eating a banana "permanently ties" it to you.

And regardless, that's only a part of my point. The other part that keeps being glossed over is the fact that whether you can resell something or not, that thing is still worth only as much as someone else is willing to pay for it. Its value is 100% subjective. Period.

I do consider them consumables.Orestes417 posted...
It's simple KT. Once you lose the ability to sell, barter, or trade an item you lose the capability of arriving at an actual value other than zero. It's not a negotiable thing so it can't be subjective in that one special case.

That's called an intangible asset. And it still gets a value.

To those confused, I'm playing devil's advocate. Not taking sides. I'm both against lootboxes and against calling them gambling.
He who stumbles around in darkness with a stick is blind. But he who... sticks out in darkness... is... fluorescent! - Brother Silence

User Info: KillerTruffle

KillerTruffle
2 weeks ago#106
Orestes417 posted...
It's simple KT. Once you lose the ability to sell, barter, or trade an item you lose the capability of arriving at an actual value other than zero. It's not a negotiable thing so it can't be subjective in that one special case.

That makes no sense. Again, going back to food... you can barter on the value of an apple. If I just ate a huge dinner and feel stuffed, that apple isn't going to be worth very much to me, and I'm not going to pay much for it. If I'm starving and that's the only food around, I might pay a lot more for the apple. Or if I just really like apples, I may still be willing to pay more for it and save it for later, even though I'm not hungry now. But once I eat it, its so-called "actual value" drops to zero. Based on this argument, food is worth nothing at all, which means we're all overpaying for everything we eat. We lose the ability to sell, barter, or trade it, so it's worthless.

Value is not defined by whether or something is re-sellable. That can certainly be one factor of an item's value, but it is not the defining factor as a rule. Someone who cares only about reselling stuff, yes, it might be a defining factor for that person, but that doesn't carry universally. When I'm car shopping, I don't give a s*** how much I can resell the car for when I'm done with it. I care what *I* will get out of the car, how comfortable *I* will be, how useful it'll be, how much I'll have to spend on maintenance, etc. The fact that I could resell it doesn't come into the picture. If it does for you, great. The fact that your opinion of its value is different from mine, and based on different factors, merely proves my point that all value is subjective. Period.
"How do I get rid of a Trojan Horse?" -Sailor_Kakashi
"Leave it outside the gates of Troy overnight." -Davel23

User Info: KillerTruffle

KillerTruffle
2 weeks ago#107
SinisterSlay posted...
I'm both against lootboxes and against calling them gambling.

Well, we certainly agree on that... I don't like the direction loot boxes have been going with the whole pay option rather than exclusively being in-game rewards. But while they share some very distinct similarities with gambling, they're technically not gambling because you do get some sort of reward out of every single one.
"How do I get rid of a Trojan Horse?" -Sailor_Kakashi
"Leave it outside the gates of Troy overnight." -Davel23

User Info: Orestes417

Orestes417
2 weeks ago#108
SinisterSlay posted...
That's called an intangible asset. And it still gets a value.


Yes, an immutable real world value of zero. You can play around with estimates of what such a thing could be worth if it were transferable, but until such a time comes that's nothing but glorified napkin math.
When nothing remains everything becomes possible.

User Info: SinisterSlay

SinisterSlay
2 weeks ago#109
KillerTruffle posted...
SinisterSlay posted...
I'm both against lootboxes and against calling them gambling.

Well, we certainly agree on that... I don't like the direction loot boxes have been going with the whole pay option rather than exclusively being in-game rewards. But while they share some very distinct similarities with gambling, they're technically not gambling because you do get some sort of reward out of every single one.

Gambling really isn't a priority for any government except China it seems. As you pointed out with the claw. Pinball case means that as long as there is any form if skill involved, such as earning lootboxes through play, then it's not gambling anymore. So cause skill affects the outcome of the claw, it's not necessarily gambling, according to the precedent set by pinball.
He who stumbles around in darkness with a stick is blind. But he who... sticks out in darkness... is... fluorescent! - Brother Silence

User Info: mucloud

mucloud
2 weeks ago#110
Good now we can get complete games and not half finished products with money tie in after the fact, make a game complete without DLC and you won't have any problems.
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