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FF2 GBA Fixed?

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User Info: Rabite

Rabite
4 years ago#1
In the other topic about FF1 Hard Type there's discussion about Ludmeister's hack to rebalance the game to be more interesting. Currently he has put some work into FF2 also, but nowhere near as much. If he were to put more effort into the game what would be areas to focus on?

I've suggested that some of the spells from the late game (Haste, Break, Flare, Osmose in particular) need to be available earlier so that there's actually some time to use them. Also that instant death spells need to have their effectiveness dropped so the game isn't just casting Toad on enemies until you hit the Emperor. Speaking of Toad, make that spell so you can't get it until towards the end of the game so you can't do the minigame with it for massively powerful end game equipment as soon as you get the sled.

Any other suggestions? I feel the game doesn't really get a lot of love because of it's status as the black sheep of the series. What do you guys think it'll take before people will actually give the game a fair shot?
What's a rabite doing in a place like this?
If all else fails use fire - Zelda 2

User Info: evillocke

evillocke
4 years ago#2
This game is good. I say remove toad completely and put death in a bit early.
If I was stuck with a wii or a ps3...... I would take the wii. People who agree: 0

User Info: Rabite

Rabite
4 years ago#3
I don't think removing things from the original entirely is a good idea. Modifying them so they aren't so powerful is significantly better for balance and completion. Now if he were to replace it with something else, that might be more interesting.
What's a rabite doing in a place like this?
If all else fails use fire - Zelda 2

User Info: 1uzy5o

1uzy5o
4 years ago#4
Speaking of Toad, make that spell so you can't get it until towards the end of the game so you can't do the minigame with it for massively powerful end game equipment as soon as you get the sled.
That requires grinding until you can beat Captains, which you're not supposed to fight until much later, then grinding again to get Toad to level 16, which is much higher than what's attainable in a normal playthrough. Players always have the option of grinding excessively to make the game a joke, but I think game balance should focus on normal playthroughs.

I think heavy armor needs to be made much more useful. The defense they provide is very underwhelming considering its drawbacks (weakens magical power, huge evasion penalty which also leads to going last in battle). I believe the patch actually made heavy armor worse by nerfing the defense many pieces of armor provide. Sure, light armor was also nerfed, but that just makes evasion even more powerful, and evasion is way too good as is.

User Info: Rabite

Rabite
4 years ago#5
"That requires grinding until you can beat Captains, which you're not supposed to fight until much later, then grinding again to get Toad to level 16, which is much higher than what's attainable in a normal playthrough. Players always have the option of grinding excessively to make the game a joke, but I think game balance should focus on normal playthroughs."

I see where you're coming from, but when you can level up Toad enough to get end game equipment it's game breaking. I don't know how to balance it out if there's no way to remove that "easter egg". The only thing I can come up with is to make the Toad spell not show up until around where Flare is. It's more easily abused than the select/cancel "bug" that Squeenix removed from this version. It'd be interesting if it could be made so each spell has it's own EXP to level up, but I doubt there's code in the game to do that.

"I think heavy armor needs to be made much more useful. The defense they provide is very underwhelming considering its drawbacks (weakens magical power, huge evasion penalty which also leads to going last in battle). I believe the patch actually made heavy armor worse by nerfing the defense many pieces of armor provide. Sure, light armor was also nerfed, but that just makes evasion even more powerful, and evasion is way too good as is."

The problem with heavy armor is part of the fundamental issue with the whole game. It doesn't matter how much defense you have. If you're fighting certain enemies (and there's a lot of them that qualify) you either avoid their attack or you're screwed. If an enemy with a drain property on their attack hits it does the damage (which can be reduced via defense) plus the drain attack which is set at 1/16th of your max HP (which is not effected by defense). Cockatrice? One hit leads directly to petrification. Then there's all the other status ailments and so on that heavily impact your party. There's really only one way to go, evade.

Evade being low isn't what causes you to go last in combat, it's low agility. So if you use heavy armor you have a hefty evade penalty, which means you have a lower chance of gaining agility. When your evade is high, your agility has a better chance of going up. Higher agility means going earlier in battle and higher evade.

I'm not really sure how to deal with this. Maybe make some of the heavy armor protect from various status attacks and/or drain attacks, but that makes it too powerful. On one hand no amount of defense can counter how nasty status physical attacks can be, on the other too much protection would completely gimp the potency of the enemies in the late game.
What's a rabite doing in a place like this?
If all else fails use fire - Zelda 2

User Info: Rabite

Rabite
4 years ago#6
I just sent an email to Ludmeister and came up with a few ideas based on what you guys have already said. Let me know what you guys think.

His idea is to lower the formula for evade so that it doesn't build up as quickly. My addition to his idea is make a cap for evade (for example 50%). If you have 79% evade this would cut off the extra 29%. This would give heavy armor a chance to be useful since any penalties can be taken before the cap is taken into account. So (in the example I gave him) if you had armor that would drop your evade to 49% normally this would be horrendous. Now with the cap at 50% the heavy armor dropping your evade to 49% wouldn't be that major of an inconvenience.

He does agree that heavy armor needs to be buffed. Also he's going to look into making the Toad spell available much later in the game. This can lead to being able to equip your party cheaper, but not significantly better than it should be for that point in the game. And since you're fighting such high rank enemies levelling the spell will be significantly easier.

He's also brought up that for the most part you can't buy most of the black magic spells. Any thoughts on this? Maybe a shop in an area you can't get to early game gains the ability to sell the spells. Or even a mid-game store adds some. Suggestions aren't just welcome, they can help influence the direction this goes. So don't be afraid to speak up.
What's a rabite doing in a place like this?
If all else fails use fire - Zelda 2

User Info: 1uzy5o

1uzy5o
4 years ago#7
I think heavy armor would be more useful if there were enemies with low attack, but extremely high number of hits. The idea is that they will do little or no damage against heavy armor, but still hurt quite a bit against light armor. And with high number of hits, they will be difficult to dodge, because even with 99% evade you can only dodge as many attacks as your evasion number. That makes heavy armor a bit more useful as they can do something that evasion cannot do, but evasion will still be better overall.

User Info: Rabite

Rabite
4 years ago#8
"I think heavy armor would be more useful if there were enemies with low attack, but extremely high number of hits. The idea is that they will do little or no damage against heavy armor, but still hurt quite a bit against light armor. And with high number of hits, they will be difficult to dodge, because even with 99% evade you can only dodge as many attacks as your evasion number. That makes heavy armor a bit more useful as they can do something that evasion cannot do, but evasion will still be better overall."

My take on that is that the more hits they have the more chances they have to inflict their status attack successfully. So removing them from the pool of enemies that we do that to you'd be missing a lot of end game enemies and quite a few mid-game. So heavy armor would still be useless at the end of the game. Then there's the heavy hitters that you don't want hitting you (Hill Gigas), and it wouldn't make sense for them to do multiple hits. That makes the pool even smaller, so heavy armor becomes something you can use in certain areas like around Fynn and that's about it.

Another flaw it doesn't take into account is how easy it is to get up to the max multiplier. Blink in particular. It was an interesting idea, but I don't think it takes into account a lot of flaws. There's a way to fix the issue, but I'm thinking it's going to take a lot of manipulation of the coding. So this might be something that Ludmiester is going to have to figure out on his own unless someone comes up with a brilliant idea.
What's a rabite doing in a place like this?
If all else fails use fire - Zelda 2

User Info: Qazitory

Qazitory
4 years ago#9
One thing I hope to see addressed is that in the endgame, the only way for a balanced to deal significant damage to bosses is to stack Haste and Berserk; these two spells let you walk all over any enemy. With the Emperor, my magic would do damage in the hundreds, but buffed physical attacks would let me take him out in three rounds.

However, the best strategy for every boss is to drain their MP with Osmose and Blink up to invincibility; there's no downside to this at all. Osmose as a whole is far too powerful for what it does, and it completely obsoletes Sap, which for some reason does less damage despite not draining.

One other thing about magic is that some come too late to find any use compared to Haste/Berserk/Osmose. Wall is not useful when enemies are sporting level 10 and up magic after Mysidia - maybe its formula could be altered to let it block spells two levels higher? Likewise, Aura appears around the same time as Berserk, and isn't worth leveling up because Berserk boosts your damage against everything from the get-go.

As for capping evade, you could just remove the status effects from enemies so that high-hitting enemies would suggest using heavy armor. You could choose from dodging most of their hits but still taking a few powerful ones, or taking most of their weak hits. Of course, Blink or max evade would have to be nerfed somehow t make this work...

User Info: Rabite

Rabite
4 years ago#10
One thing I hope to see addressed is that in the endgame, the only way for a balanced to deal significant damage to bosses is to stack Haste and Berserk; these two spells let you walk all over any enemy. With the Emperor, my magic would do damage in the hundreds, but buffed physical attacks would let me take him out in three rounds."

Berzerk might be a bit too powerful, especially with how easily you can get it early on. Haste really would be more balanced early on than Berzerk. Haste should probably replace Berzerk on the enemy by Fynn that drops it, and Berzerk should be a mid to end game spell.

"However, the best strategy for every boss is to drain their MP with Osmose and Blink up to invincibility; there's no downside to this at all. Osmose as a whole is far too powerful for what it does, and it completely obsoletes Sap, which
for some reason does less damage despite not draining."

I didn't really think about this, but it is a valid point. Sap should be far more effective at removing MP from an enemy. Maybe make the effective power of Osmose so that it drains 2-3 times what it costs. So level 10 costs 10 MP but drains 20-30 to the caster. Meanwhile Sap destroys 30-40 at like level 3 or so.

"One other thing about magic is that some come too late to find any use compared to Haste/Berserk/Osmose. Wall is not useful when enemies are sporting level 10 and up magic after Mysidia - maybe its formula could be altered to let it block spells two levels higher? Likewise, Aura appears around the same time as Berserk, and isn't worth leveling up because Berserk boosts your damage against everything from the get-go."

There's going to have to be some spell location rebalancing. Some spells are way too late to be useful and some are too early for how powerful they are. Also most of the black magic can't be bought anywhere.

"As for capping evade, you could just remove the status effects from enemies so that high-hitting enemies would suggest using heavy armor. You could choose from dodging most of their hits but still taking a few powerful ones, or taking most of their weak hits. Of course, Blink or max evade would have to be nerfed somehow t make this work..."

Removing the status effects from enemy attacks takes away any impact they might have had. If you fought a Cockatrice and it couldn't petrify on attack you're not going to be scared of fighting it. It's just another vanilla enemy. Now with that petrification attack you have to weigh whether or not it's worth staying or making like Sir Robin.
What's a rabite doing in a place like this?
If all else fails use fire - Zelda 2

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