Since the devs seem to be here... comments!

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User Info: Trisha_Goddard

Trisha_Goddard
9 years ago#11
Rave, you need to up your standards.

User Info: gunfart

gunfart
9 years ago#12
First off, this is not your Dad's Galaga Clone....It really takes some time to get the hang of the controls. But there is a reason for this...continue to play to get "it" I LOVE the way the game pushes you to improve and you will improve...if you put the time in.
BTW I totally suck at this game right now but am having a blast playing it!

I am too scared to go into multiplayer, maybe after a few beers.

User Info: DJAMES

DJAMES
9 years ago#13
I only have a short moment to post here, there are a lot of questions through this forum I want to get to, so forgive me for only addressing "Reflect" and "Toxic Sludge"

1) "once you've been caught in a blast of Toxin, you're dead. The toxin will drain your shield rapidly, you cannot turbo out when your shield is enabled (you're slow enough in a cloud that it does not matter anyway), and you further have enemy fire to deal with."

Toxic Sludge: This is an example of depth that in single and multiplayer is threaded deep into the core system design. Once in sludge, you have a couple of choices: A) Shield and take no damage while thrusting towards the shortest escape point (this takes longer), B) Don't shield, just turbo (towards shortest escape) and you will power out quickly (almost full speed)! Now during this, your enemy has forced you into these choices and will be doing something to follow up on you- what you do may or may not kill him as a result, or kill you faster. It is called a guessing game or prediction or amazing reaction skill depending on the level of play. AI is pretty nice and only elite (later level AI does the mean stuff), players are not.
So what can you do offensively from this? Once in sludge you know the enemy is going to fire at you, so you could just turbo at them (saving your shields assuming you have some Hull/HP) and then bust a Reflect drifting right into the wave of fire, sending back 3-5 bullets unexpectedly to damage or kill the fool. Or, sit in the sludge and reflect the homing missiles back, then turbo out. There is a lot more than these simple examples. Me, as guardbot, I actually rarely get kills from sludge (unless I am scrubbing around battles in progress) and mainly use it to setup the above example and then re-reflect my reflected bullets (or missiles) back at the victim. I know this is all expert crap that does not help your experience, so let me say this- just turbo out for now.

2) "Active Shields... well, there's not really an easy way to say this other than "the shields feel like a complete afterthought." Since putting up your shield makes you a complete sitting duck, they're nigh-on-useless except to deflect a drone that has gotten too close"

The shields and Reflect system were very carefully planned out and are core to both single and multiplayer modes. I can tell you in single player the use of Active Shield is really important when there is 3 + ships fighting you. Reflect is killer to AI and each ships attacks are interweaved into whether Reflect will help you or not. On Crimson Zone for example, the Scouts (1st enemies) shoot in a crazed pattern sometimes putting 5 shots on screen spread out- this too make it so you can just Reflect (2x tap shield) without having to line up and pretty much kill them with 1 reflected bullet. On the same level, the Marauders Claw blast homes on you, just reflect a bit early and it will be sent back (homing) to the Marauder to kill it.

There is more. The Reflect system has a 'Whiff' if you do not hit a bullet while the shield pulsates with reflect on- it goes to a 1 second cool down where you cannot shield. Why? So it is not just mindlessly spammed - especially in multiplayer - and enemies can make you miss a reflect and then punish you. I created the first parry system in fighting games (weaponlord) that was incorporated into the Soul Caliber series, so I made damn sure this system was counterable, deep and easy to use but hard to master.

Keep in mind everything I am describing is not normally in a simple genre like this, which is why we have the tag line for Shred Nebula: Hyper-Injected Space Combat.
It is a whole different beast.

I hope that this information helps and good luck kicking but on the game.

User Info: RvLeshrac

RvLeshrac
9 years ago#14
Trisha: If you aren't making constructive criticisms, don't say anything at all. The developers are communicating with people here, and saying "The game sucks" in no way encourages them to continue.

Marketing blurbs are written by marketers, not by developers. They may or may not agree with everything said in the marketing.

Rave: With regard to the A-button being empty, there's nothing left to put there. LStick/RStick are "standard" Robotron/etc controls - LStick rotates the ship, RStick fires your weapon/subweapon. Since A is empty now, it could easily be assigned to primary fire if, as mentioned, the original control scheme (unidirectional fire), was partially chosen for balance/difficulty issues. (There are a number of ways to overcome this, however, including a weaker primary and/or more durable/agile enemies.)

No issue with not being able to fire primary/subweapons simultaneously. I agree that being able to fire both at the same time is ridiculous. As it stands now, though, it *is* within the realm of possibility. The scheme above toggles RStick between the two fire modes, making it physically impossible to fire both simultaneously.

Difficulty *can* be a flaw if the base difficulty is high with no way to adjust it. A lower difficulty setting isn't just for steamrolling over enemis - a lower difficulty setting is also useful for learning tactics. When enemies are marginally less aggressive, you have more time to think and adjust your playing style.

I'm exaggerating slightly with the toxin, I'll agree with you there. Not nearly as deadly as fire - but it can still be a terrible drain on your shields. The damage from the cloud isn't the real killer, though, the reduced speed is.

Reverse-firing is obviously a key strategy, given that the game strongly suggests you use it. I agree that you shouldn't be spending the entire battle in reverse, but when you're out of special weapons, that may be your only immediate combat option. Some increased speed here would be of immeasurable value when you're stuck in a tight spot.

You aren't sounding like a fanboy, fwiw - I'm not stupid, and I knew full well that people would defend the game against my suggestions. Fanboys don't explain WHY they like something the way it is, and yours is the kind of post I wanted to elicit (though more from the devs than individual users) - an explanation of why things were done the way they were done, and/or why you think they're fine as they are.

User Info: RvLeshrac

RvLeshrac
9 years ago#15
DJAMES:

You posted while I was posting, damn you!

Anyway...

First, don't ever mention the name "Weaponlord" near me! Maybe the SNES version was better, but I played it on the Genesis and it was simply riddled with problems. That is to say, what seemed like bugs and massive control issues, not necessarily gameplay issues. The characters seemed to have very stiff movements, as well - but then again, this was in the heyday of SF2T/SFA. I've always had issues with MK1/2 for the same reason (slow moving gameplay), and the same goes for Tekken.

On the other hand, it WAS nice and bloody...
-----------

Back to the issues at hand...

Sludge: As I mentioned in what I posted a moment ago, the sludge is less of a killer than the ensuing hail of projectiles. Being able to turbo+shield would solve all of my concerns... but I see where you're coming from with the reflection system. It is entirely possible that my views may change as I play longer, I just don't see myself switching positions in the short term.

Shields: I'm going to go back and play some Score Attack right now to check out the reflection mechanics a bit more. It is possible that the "whiffing" may be what turned me off, since I was primarily testing out shields vs. nebulae and didn't really break out the reflects in combat precisely because of the length of time it took to throw up shields again after reflecting.... in open space... with no enemies around.

I hate to sound like I'm giving you homework, but some more "tips" on the game systems like that would be a great idea. I wasn't really paying much attention to shields because my first experience with them was sub-par, and I'm sure there are other people out there thinking the same thing. I know that "hiding" the mechanics is a conscious design decision - players SHOULD explore the limits of the gameplay - but, and I'm going to reference food here again, it can be a lot like eating octopus.

Prepared wrong, it feels like you're eating an old rubber galosh - and you're very likely to never touch it again, no matter how many times someone tells you that it tastes delicious when made properly.

User Info: RvLeshrac

RvLeshrac
9 years ago#16
OK, played 2 hours in Score Attack. I withdraw my comments about the shield. Mostly.
Reflect is great, but I still feel that the shield itself is a bit less-than-useful.

I'd rather have a separate button to reflect. I might get more used to the controls as time goes on (hey, I've changed my mind about part of the shield!), but double-tapping seems cumbersome.

Then again... where would you put the button? Heh.

User Info: Trisha_Goddard

Trisha_Goddard
9 years ago#17
Apologies if it comes across as trolling. I'm just very disappointed. I've bought over 60 XBLA games and I love shooters so I really wanted this to be good.

Fair play to anyone who likes the game. Just don't expect it to be available in 6 months.

User Info: EtherealDescent

EtherealDescent
9 years ago#18
[This message was deleted at the request of a moderator or administrator]

User Info: GameOz

GameOz
9 years ago#19
^You come across like someone that worked on the game and is mad that most people have issues with the controls or lack of control options.

Why is someone going to buy the full game if they don't like the controls in the demo?
No More Heroes is pretty much the greatest game ever made.

User Info: gordojones

gordojones
9 years ago#20
DJames Goddard is the guy who made this game.

So Trisha Goddard is probably his angry ex-wife that never stops complaining.



This is a joke...
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