Fantasy Balance Patch Notes

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User Info: PlatinumPlayer3

PlatinumPlayer3
8 months ago#1
Since the post-launch developer support was negligible for TM there were only a few patches that released, letalone MP balance patches. I thought it'd be fun to write a list of changes I would make if I were able to release an update. I'm not going to modify any complex 'behaviors' i.e. remote bomb auto-stick etc., just HP numbers and the like. Feel free to add your own; should be interesting.

Weapons:

Sniper Rifle
Initial non-charged DMG reduced from 16HP to 10HP

Remote Bomb
Stage 1 DMG reduced from 35HP to 20HP; Stage 2 DMG reduced from 50HP to 35HP

Stalker Missile
DMG reduced from 45HP to 30HP

Vehicles:

Axel
Health increased from 170HP to 190HP; Crowd Controller DMG increased from 20HP to 30HP
Axel is neck-and-neck with Crimson Fury for the most underpowered vehicle designation. The changes would allow Axel to better fill its role as a nimble alternative to Warthog.

Crimson Fury
Health increased from 110HP to 120HP; Fire Shockwave DMG increased from 20HP+fire DMG to 45HP+fire DMG
Crimson is 10mph faster than Kamikaze, but forfeits 40HP of armor and an arguably much better alt Special elemental type. The changes would allow the most underpowered vehicle to contend with its Japanese competitor.

Death Warrant
Max speed increased from 130mph to 135mph

Darkside
Max speed when using turbo reduced

Junkyard Dog
Health reduced from 260HP to 250HP

Meat Wagon
Max speed when using turbo swapped with Shadow

Road Boat
Amount of tap out required to escape RB magnet grip reduced; time it takes to charge RB magnet toss reduced

Shadow
Max speed when using turbo swapped with Meat Wagon
By reducing the most overpowered vehicle in the game's speed, the change would give players a negative to think about instead of one too many great stats.

Sweet Tooth
Sweet Bot rate of altitude gain when airborne reduced

Talon
Health reduced from 120HP to 110HP

Vermin
Piloted Rat Rocket guided direct impact DMG increased from 100HP to 150HP
PSN: PlatinumPlayer3; Co-Leader of H2K

User Info: yurnxt

yurnxt
8 months ago#2
Adding to your changes

Reaper- +10 health

Homing missile nerf from 12 to 10

Fire missile buff from 16 to 20

Crimson Fury- Shockwave staggers opponents more like Warthogs shockwave.
#1
~Aut viam inveniam aut faciam~

User Info: MuddyMaestro

MuddyMaestro
7 months ago#3
Weapons:

Fire Missiles
---
They are fine as is.

Homing Missiles
---
Decrease their homing ability, or reduce their damage to 6 DD. Homing missiles should be made the most undesirable pickup in a competitive environment because they are the most watered-down and unskilled weapon to use. They should be consistently dodgeable for lightweights, and possible (but very challenging) to be dodged by a heavy. If possible, it would also be ideal for their speed to be reduced to provide more opportunity to react and dodge, or even for the faster vehicles to get an obstruction between themselves and the missile.

Napalms
---
Return their original DD tiers of 5, 10, 15, and 20, and make a bullseye 30 DD with burn damage buffed to 5 DD. Napalms never should have been buffed to begin with, and if anything they could even be nerfed further if the reliability of auto-aim weapons is also nerfed.

At the very least, bullseye damage should be nerfed with higher burn damage so it’s less effective for lightweights to be able to pop heavies from underneath and quickfire bullseyes directly up into them. Also, increase the self-damage napalms deal to at least 50% to deter from spamming them from close range.

Power Missiles
---
It would be nice if power missiles had more of a stagger effect and lent themselves more to initiating and stringing together combos, but they're not bad as is.

Remote Bombs
---
Obviously, it'd be ideal for remote bomb homing to be entirely removed from the game. Since that's likely not possible with just a tweak, perhaps it'd be possible to tweak out the glitch with ramming off the remote onto environment or other vehicles. Otherwise, set the damage that a remote bomb deals to a vehicle it’s stuck onto to 0 DD (unless it's self-stuck), but allow the bomb to still damage surrounding vehicles or teammates.

This would allow remotes to be used much more tactically as either a means of staggering an opponent and setting up an attack that deals real damage, or forcing players to keep distance from their teammates and thus increasing the opportunity to isolate players without having that teammate be able to come into close quarters to help. Also, decrease the time before the remote bomb self-detonates to 20 seconds so it's a much shorter window of opportunity to detonate the bomb and use it effectively. The DD remote bombs deal for environmental and detnoball uses are fine as is.

Ricochets
---
The damage uncharged ricos deal is fine, but they should self-detonate far sooner, perhaps after eight seconds or so. Hitting randomly-discarded ricochets is a major annoyance and is also DD that isn't skillfully dealt, but is just based off luck. Charged ricochets are fine as is considering their unique ability to knock opponents away/off ledges, even if they are too wild to use for setting up combos.

Shotguns
---
It would be nice if it had an even stronger stagger effect for the medium and close ranges so they could be used more often to set up combos, but they're not bad as is.

Snipers
---
Remove the body shot stage entirely, or set the damage it deals to 0 DD. The fact that you can double tap the fire button and effortlessly deal an instant and undodgeable 16 DD is just an example of terrible weapons mechanics. To deal damage you should at least get to the second stage, by which time the defending player would have a chance to react and find cover, or anticipate the shot and use a shield in the event they're caught in an open section of map.

If your target goes out of range, the charge of the weapon should reset entirely and not just go down one stage. It's goofy that you can charge the sniper to a headshot off a novice (or even an AFK) player, then switch targets to a veteran player and be able to headshot them in a matter of a couple of seconds.
This user is a proud Canadian.
PSN: Muddy_Maestro | XBL: Muddy Maestro

User Info: MuddyMaestro

MuddyMaestro
7 months ago#4
Stalker Missiles
---
If I were to re-envision this weapon, I would like to see it where an uncharged stalker deals full damage but as you charge it, both its speed and the damage it deals decreases. Think of it as a multi-function missile that could function as a power missile, a homing missile, or anything inbetween.

I doubt that would be possible to achieve in a tweak, but I believe the homing could be nerfed to what the homing for a half-charged stalker currently is. For the speed they travel at, they should be way more dodgeable. Otherwise, drastically nerfed the damage down to something like 20 DD, considering they're a cheap and effortless weapon to use at a full charge.

Swarmer Missiles
---
Decrease their homing ability slightly, or decrease the DD so that a normal charge deals 30 DD and a full charge deals 48 DD. Swarmers are just too brutal on heavies at long range. From certain angles and arcs they can become undodgable for the larger vehicles. I love the reward of a 70 DD payoff be present for effective use in CQC, but at the same time heavies shouldn't have to tank that damage constantly and should be able to consistently dodge at least some of the missile clusters at long range and only take partial damage.

Freeze Missiles
---
Just like homers, slow the bloody things down and make them dodgeable. That way it can justify increasing the tap-out time for lightweights so freeze is actually useful against them, and so that it’s not a surefire way to combo a heavy that lacks energy.

Rockets Sidearm
---
Nerf it to 1 DD per missile for a maximum of 5 DD, and decrease the homing ability some on top of that. I would actually prefer if the sidearm were removed altogether since all it does is water-down the game and make the other sidearms completely inferior in its presence.

Vehicles:

Axel
---
If other vehicles are balanced as suggested, I’d say it’s fine as is. Otherwise, increase its shockwave to 30 DD and improve its AA regeneration significantly. The shockwave would also be more effective if it had a more moderate stagger effect, rather than tossing opponents like a charged rico does. It may make Axel less useful in Nuke, but that mode is pretty mediocre anyhow.

Crimson Fury
---
If changes to the weapons mechanics are made, then Crimson shouldn’t need a buff. It may even become overpowered if it can consistently dodge the currently undodgeable weapons. If things don’t change, increase its shockwave to 30 DD and buff its burn damage a fair bit as well, increase its AA to that of Reaper, and if possible, alter its weight/stability to be equal to the of Kamikaze since it’s way too easy for it to get upset and staggered with it. Like Axel, it would also be more effective if it had a stagger effect that could be taken advantage of.

Death Warrant
---
Reduce the homing of both the primary and secondary specials to that of a fire missile.

Darkside
---
Reduce the homing of both the trigun special to that of a fire missile.

Juggernaut
---
Scrap it from ranked, have it disabled by default in unranked settings. No matter how you balance it, it doesn’t belong in Twisted Metal.

Junkyard Dog
---
I’d like to see the health taxi entirely scrapped for team modes since it encourages and rewards overly defensive playstyles. It would be nice if the special for FFA replaced the health taxi for team games, seeing that we’ve banned it and JYD is a one special vehicle as is. At the very least, nerf the stage 1 health taxis to 10% health recovery and stage 2 health taxis to 20% recovery, and perhaps even extend the cooking period to ten seconds so that it takes far more time and effort to heal and curbing the over-reliance on them. Fix reverse fire of the taxi if possible as well.
This user is a proud Canadian.
PSN: Muddy_Maestro | XBL: Muddy Maestro

User Info: MuddyMaestro

MuddyMaestro
7 months ago#5
Kamikaze
---
With the other suggested balances in place, Kamikaze is fine as is. Otherwise, its AA regeneration can be buffed a tad but it’s pretty close to balanced as is.

Meat Wagon
---
Drastically lower the accuracy of the primary special and make it dodgeable. Increase its health to 240 HP to be on-par with Outlaw.

Outlaw
---
Reduce the homing of the primary turret to that of a nerfed homing missile, and reduce the homing of both the secondary turret to that of a fire missile.

Roadboat
---
Extend the cooldown between using its alt special back to back.

Reaper
---
I can’t see a way of making the RPG legit without fixing self-sticks, making it larger on-screen and visible on the radar, which I doubt would be possible with just a tweak. At least nerf it massively to perhaps 20 DD uncooked and 40 DD cooked since it’s practically invisible and is cheap to use.

Roadkill
---
Reduce the homing of both the primary and secondary specials to that of a fire missile.

Shadow
---
Nerf health to 210 HP. Nerf coffin the alt special to 15 far, 30 close, and 40 direct at stage 1, and 30 far, 60 close, and 100 direct at stage 2.

Sweet Tooth
---
With the other suggested balances in place, Sweet Tooth is fine as is.

Talon
---
Scrap it from ranked, have it disabled by default in unranked settings. No matter how you balance it, it doesn’t belong in Twisted Metal.

Warthog
---
With the other suggested balances in place, Warthog is fine as is.

Vermin
---
Reduce the homing of the primary special to that of a fire missile, and reduce the homing of both the secondary turret to that of a half-charged stalker missile.
This user is a proud Canadian.
PSN: Muddy_Maestro | XBL: Muddy Maestro

User Info: goroh16

goroh16
7 months ago#6
For Meat Wagon you can just make it possible to jump over the special without having to do a double jump like in offline. Keep the homing. It's slow enough for you to see it coming.
The only Final Fantasy I care about: 3, 4, 7, 9.
Super Mario Maker Profile: https://supermariomakerbookmark.nintendo.net/profile/goroh16?type=posted

User Info: Vadimony

Vadimony
7 months ago#7
Is it just me or am I the only one that honestly feels (aside from two things involving glitches) this game tends to be balanced well based on what it was supposed to be balanced for?

The game's core values always have centered around the culture that is Nuke. Therefore, the game is balanced around Nuke... Which means, all those super accurate items and specials are purposely auto-aimed in order to help give characters a means of "destroying" Nuke missiles. And I would agree that the balance is there, but not because of Jaffe and the crew, unless they intended for remote bombs, RPGs, and coffin bombs, and also a vehicle parked on top of the missile launcher as it is about to launch, ala The Sweet Bot Statue Method, to all have defensive impacts towards the Nuke without the player being able to shield it away...This is the only manner to which vehicles like Shadow and armor in particular has any use in Nuke because prior to that revelation, it was pretty much stupid of a team to not use Crimson Fury and Kamikaze constantly. Why not? auto-aim flamethrowers and fast launching speed... Why avoid that advantage? You wouldn't unless the opposing team can someone sabotage launchers and force a team to straight up clear an area by using attacks and combat before launching.

If it wasn't for that discovery, Nuke was quite poor in the balancing realm, and therefore the whole game was piss-poor. But there was a silver lining, and Nuke was relatively interesting--though entirely void of the same energy other game modes got. Wrongfully, maybe, but honestly it makes sense since Nuke is a team-based strategy mode where people had to play roles and specific planning was expected. It was more structured and took more practice than a team deathmatch game.

So, the only things that I would fix would be the extended shield glitch and the glitch involving remote bombs--where you can't just ram them onto an environmental surface as planned prior. Other than that, I can't really say much about the rest... Sure, Napalms being buffed meant little to Nuke--after all, it wasn't a truly useful weapon to that mode in the first place. Having it buffed only benefits TDM spamming and DM kill streaks. Those kinds of things have little to do with Nuke though.

Now onto the myths of TM:
1) You cannot dodge weapons...
Actually, you can dodge everything from snipers to even dastardly remote bombs. If any armored car, except Juggernaut (bastard cannot really do a hop-step), can effectively dodge a homing missile rather consistently, then I fail to see how this is accurate. Even DOT spamfire can be dodged, though, surely not the whole way for the duration of their fire.
2) Nerf Shadow etc.
Shadow doesn't need another nerfing. It's perfectly fine... The advantages it has are more to do with the crappy level design than the car, personally. In fact, majority of the game's issues revolve around poor level design unfit for the type of games it tries to have.
3) Buff so-so car.
I wouldn't say "yes" to this at all. The only car that is slightly disadvantaged these days is more than likely Axel. But even that vehicle doesn't need any boost. The car can compete as it is relatively well. All in all, it's up to the player to be skillful and talented enough to make a car effectively.

Arguably, Axel and Sweet Tooth were the weakest vehicles, barring Sweet Bot. But with ST's newly discovered layer and the fact that potentially Axel is just too hard for folks to play it well, I wouldn't entirely agree with it. Sure, Outlaw, Shadow, and Vermin are likely the most powerful cars--given their stats--but they have weaknesses too. And if the mid-tier'd cars aren't the most potent, then what should be? They're the jack of all trades, more or less...
Farewell. :)

User Info: Vadimony

Vadimony
7 months ago#8
Now the other suggestions on here:

Sniper Rifles
It doesn't matter. This item pickup isn't excessively plentiful on a map. You can't argue that for a decent structured game mode, like Nuke, with a populated group involved that this weapon will break the game so much it's unplayable. In fact, contrary to that belief, when has a player armed with the lone attainable sniper on Ghost Town's peak ever conquered the field? The fact of the matter is that car trying to survive off of a 16 hit weapon that respawns every minute or so isn't going to dominate... I'll be the first to admit that sniper spam is high in 1 on 1 play, but that's got more to do with the fact that it's 1 on 1 than it's got to do with the game... In fact, snipers hardly have any use in Nuke--much like the remote bombs against Nuke missiles. People had to actually use these two weapons differently just to have them effective.

Remote Bombs
Only issue is that the game we got has a glitch where you can't stick them to a surface after someone tags you with one. If that existed, then this weapon doesn't really have the same effect it had before. In fact, Dead Man's Crossing doesn't even have a remote bomb present, yet it doesn't change the real issue: poor map design.

Swarmer/ Fire/ Stalker/ Homing Missiles
All are avoidable even by Meat Wagon... Readily at that. I don't feel that any of these weapons are overpowering... Sure, the stalkers are over-used. I can't deny that but why wouldn't anyone use a staggering weapon over something else? I dunno... The weapon's ratio per map is pretty fair, in that respect, and you only get a single one. So, I can't say it's OP'd when you can absorb one instantly off spawn. Fact is, I feel that these weapons are awesomely balanced--and have unique properties that rock! Like how swapping them exists and how Fires fire from the right side, where as homings are left. All in all, these weapons are fine. They got uniqueness in them.

Ricochet
I'm happy that these got a buff. Now they're awesome. Prior to that bounce damage buff, these weapons were useless. Now, honestly, they're incredible.

Power
The coolest thing about it compared to other missiles is that you can fire it from a higher plane and it'll glide down and hit a target on ground level. Few other weapons can work like that.

Napalms
This buff wasn't necessary. But having it doesn't really change much. It does however harm the game when killstreaks are involved. But that's got more to do with killstreaks than the weapon. Also, bad level design contributes to napalm issues.

Side arms
I'd love to play pretend like all side arms are equal, but they're not. However, there's nothing to change that. Rockets are best. Nothing comes close. I've love to make magnum, laser pistol both have some awesome effect, but reality is that the two aren't any better. Neither is uzi or shotgun. Would love it if the shotgun had a better stagger, but oh well. Same with magnum. It's just that no matter what, Rockets are always bound to be the best.

150 ALT Direct
Laughable... Why? So you can one-shot a Vermin/ Meat Wagon?

Better AA regens
Baseless reasoning. Cars like Reaper with a ram-deficiency, and Talon, need it more than CF or Axel or whoever you add. Those cars don't die instantly by just being rubbed...

Health Values
I don't feel it's needed anymore. All cars have their unique attributes. Speed can dodge as needed--up to the player to get good at that. Armor needs it because they're a huge target. And altering Shadow any more merely hurts it. Blame the poor level designing rather than Shadow that just benefits from it.
Farewell. :)

User Info: Vadimony

Vadimony
7 months ago#9
Magnet Cooldown
That car is already severely underwhelming in a statistic perspective, and now you want to eliminate the only advantage it has at all? Sure, magnet spamming is annoying... But it's totally preventable. Not like a lone Roadboat can tear up the field when it has a magnet special and megaguns and whatever else it prefers. Honestly, sure it can kill a player instantly, but the person that invested the practice to pull it off shouldn't be penalized just because it's annoying... You can easily kill the slower Roadboat before it even has a chance to do that.

Reducing Homing properties of weapons/ specials
If one does that, then how does a player kill a Nuke? Get back to me on that, boss man. The fact of the matter is that neither is truly overwhelming... I'd argue that the poor level design is more to blame for that than the vehicles. The vehicles that perform that attack have to face the enemy from a frontal position; hence, they've forfeited their ability to avoid/ dodge attacks due to the angle they need to maintain in order to hit targets.

Health Taxi
Nothing wrong with it. In fact, I love the rear fire aspect... Being able to slide taxis through solid surfaces, and floors, is quite impressive. The fact that the JYD also has an added defensive ability to boot is impressive too... And, even if someone tries to shield with a health taxi, the fact is that the taxi breaks and cannot heal anyway. So, it's not OP'd.

Furthering that, the health taxi being able to do damage through walls (yes, the primary) is impressive. All in all, I love the intrigue that JYD has, and the depth. Too bad I couldn't stand the driving mechanics and handling it held. IMO, I don't feel the car is over-powered/ under-powered. And to complain towards a "team-structure" is foolhardy.

Crimson Fury is underpowered
I find that also un-true.

Fact is all weapons can be dodged. Check!
Fact is Crimson Fury's jump properties are standard... i.e. the speed to which it can initiate a hop-step is standard... Hence, this suggests Crimson Fury has no definitive issues with being able to perform a hop-step at all. I mean, if Vermin can hop step a homing, then CF ought to (and this is confirmed true, by the way as I've tested it) be able to do it just fine as well... In summary, Crimson Fury doesn't suffer from a "jump" limitation like some other vehicles do.
Crimson Fury is the fastest vehicle. It can dodge anything on its own speed stat, practically.
Aside from the staggering jumbled handling, it has a low frame and can easily up-end cars. Plowing through cars can allow it to do more damage with combos, like super mine drops. If KK can manage +40 combo amplifiers per pass, then Crimson Fury can more or less do that without even needing a means to stagger the target. It can simply plow, lift, and then leave a super behind. Add in the secondary, and you can do a 80 damage pass.
The sharp cornering it has can make it practically untouchable on its charging approach--hence, you can do these shovel passes more frequently, often times unharmed unless struck by an AOE hit.
Flamethrower can actually be used while drifting on an angle. Imagine having the angle to flux the opponent's targeting while delivering serious damage...

In my honest opinion, I don't believe this car is unbalanced/weak. I just feel the player base never quite managed to fulfill the aspirations it can possess. Much like Kamikaze or Axel. Difficulty involved is essentially not the easiest to overcome.

So, in summary, I can't say the game is horribly unbalanced; rather, I'd say that the level design is the culprit for any issues but I would rather have these two fixes:
No Extended Shield Glitch
Remote Bombs being able to be passed onto surfaces.

Self-stick RPGs are fine, though.
Farewell. :)

User Info: goroh16

goroh16
7 months ago#10
Self stick RPGs are fine? Are you kidding me? You think it's fun running away from a Reaper for like 20 seconds and rear firing whatever you have when you don't have a shield? Self stick RPG is an easy alternative way for people to deal high damage with Reaper and couldn't land flamesaws without having to use freeze.
The only Final Fantasy I care about: 3, 4, 7, 9.
Super Mario Maker Profile: https://supermariomakerbookmark.nintendo.net/profile/goroh16?type=posted
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