Fantasy Balance Patch Notes

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User Info: MuddyMaestro

MuddyMaestro
6 months ago#51
Vadimony posted...
You can consistently dodge the main weapons that you have a grievance with

You can’t. Get back on planet Earth. You’re the only one in TM’s community that believe it is realistic. Although you certainly can dodge them, and can even often dodge back to back in ideal circumstances, it is very rare such circumstances arise when playing in a real competitive environment. If you can dodge an opponent’s near-undodgeables multiple times, it’s a hallmark that you’re playing against a bad player who doesn’t adjust their angle or arc of fire to make such weapons undodgeable. Thanks for finally admitting you have to be superhuman to dodge snipers in a real setting though.

Vadimony posted...
Shadow's big advantage is that 90% of the maps are closed off areas or corridors, or different planes with cover so someone can lob weapons over the top unvulnerable to counters.

Assuming you’re staying on topic about game balancing, are you suggesting that it would have been more realistic to entirely redesign the game’s maps post-launch over tweaking Shadow’s numbers? That’s basically what you just said. Since that would never happen, so Shadow should have simply been nerfed. Even on Black Rock without traps, Shadow is still a top three vehicle if just due to how well-rounded it is.

Vadimony posted...
So, I do disagree. The issue is that most people suck driving the car completely and those that can are hindered by the way the maps are designed.

Quick question. When’s the last time you played in a competitive setting with Crimson Fury to be able to gauge the difficulty of playing with the vehicle? For that matter, when’s the last time you saw someone pull out Crimson among the best of the best as their main (not just choosing it to balance out teams or make things fairer) and outplay a top-tier Vermin? Out of a thousand or so players who would/do drop in to play competitive TDM the last couple of years, there has not been a single Crimson Fury main. Not one. There’s probably a couple hundred Vermin mains I could make a list of, but not one Crimson Fury main. On top of that, Crimson Fury is far more fun to play than Vermin, yet it’s still only chosen by elite players when teams become unbalanced. It’s not a problem with player skill, and it’s not about map design even. It all comes back to weapon mechanics. Crimson Fury can’t consistently dodge the near-undodgeables, and its speed can’t compensate for it low HP, lack of weight/stability and relatively mediocre specials. Alter the homing ability of a few weapons, and then WAM, BAM--problem solved and Crimson Fury is no longer a handicap.
This user is a proud Canadian.
PSN: Muddy_Maestro | XBL: Muddy Maestro

User Info: MuddyMaestro

MuddyMaestro
6 months ago#52
Vadimony posted...
All in all, ST with his alt can be a good vehicle, but otherwise he's just a slow, wonky hit box waiting to take pain.

I’m not a natural to be advocating the value of Sweet Tooth, since I personally believe Junkyard to be superior. Nonetheless, you’ll be met with a lot of disagreement with others by suggesting it’s a poor vehicle, let alone the bottom two. Its one of the speediest heavies (especially in reverse) and has more dodging ability than any other vehicle in its weight class. It must have been a long time since you’ve played if you believe it doesn’t have CQC ability. You don’t need turbo to make use of its primary, simply timing for an opponent to drive themselves into a narrow street or corridor is enough to ensure a hit even on midweights. It’s a massive pester against heavies, especially on small maps lacking many ricos or napalms to negate it. The special is also a lifesaver of a shield that can save you AA. It’s definitely in the upper half of the roster, especially due to its high HP being such an asset due to the game’s weapon mechanics.

Vadimony posted...
Yes, I don't feel that snipers ruin this game.

I never said they ruin the game. It’s not often that they change the tide of a match, but that doesn’t mean that they aren’t mechanically broken. Their inclusion only detracts from the game, and there’s nothing skillful about using them. The game would be better off if the body shot was disabled entirely.

And, just because I can state this fact: by your own admission, you have to be superhuman to consistently dodge it. lol.

Vadimony posted...
I just feel that it's necessary since this game decided to force health pickups onto you. If the player could essentially rub them off, onto walls or surfaces, then the main way people use them would be gone and folks would then stop trying to rely so much on them that way.

If health worked the way it did in previous TMs, with it respawning at random times and some packs in random places, then I can see the logic in that. That’s not how TM 2012’s health works though. This game is the first to get health right with packs being entirely predictable in terms of where and when they’ll respawn: three minutes after they are last acquired. What you’re basically suggesting is, because you didn’t have the foresight to pace yourself or control the map with your team, you should be able to negate the assertiveness of those able to prevent you from acquiring health with an undodgeable, unskillful and completely braindead weapon. Just… no. Remotes are mechanically broken just like snipers, and have no place in TM the way they are used. Ramming them into walls doesn’t solve the problem because you can quickly detonate for 35 DD before they have that opportunity. And besides, countering a weapon by turning and driving head-first into a wall? In of itself, it’s just stupid.
This user is a proud Canadian.
PSN: Muddy_Maestro | XBL: Muddy Maestro

User Info: MuddyMaestro

MuddyMaestro
6 months ago#53
Vadimony posted...
The game gives us a chance to dodge consistently--however, we're too unable to muster ourselves the time and effort to master it.

After five and a half years, nobody dodges near-undodgeables consistently. It’s no fault of the players. The simple fact is that no matter if we trained for hours a day at dodging homers, you can’t execute the impossible by dodging at undodgeable angles.

Vadimony posted...
When x-ployt was using the laser pistol, aside from look hipster and cool, he literally did nothing for himself.

Yeah, cause racking up a couple hundred DD per game is doing literally nothing. Yes, sidearms solely exist for extra DD. Besides the slight stagger of the shotgun they serve no other purpose. There’s really only two criteria for gauging sidearms, being how difficult they are to land and their damage output. Since the rockets are the easiest to use, they should deal the least damage output. Rockets shouldn’t exist in competitive play since you’d think the most skilled players would use the most difficult, manual-aim sidearms which should deliver the highest DD payout, but that’s not the case since the rockets deal so much damage. Adjust the rockets down to 5 DD per use, and presto! Folks will want to experiment with different sidearms so that they can be rewarded for using it. Pretty simple really.

Vadimony posted...
A fully charged stalker is quite easy to avoid.

I don’t need to respond to this segment. This quote alone pretty much sums up how illogical it is.

Vadimony posted...
If homing abilities were less effective, then RB's basically doomed because cars just need to spend 10 minutes picking up weapons and then they'll dance around him and kill him before he gets his magnet game even started.

No. If homing was reduced then people won’t be able to spam Roadboat from a distance and be required to fight Roadboat with more manual-aim weapons, which are easier to use at a closer distance, putting the opponent more at risk to being in range of Roadboat’s magnet. It doesn’t hurt Roadboat at all, especially since its primary is fine as is and doesn’t need to be nerfed. It’s pretty rare Roadboats back-to-back magnets anyhow, it’s more for the sake of trolls in ranked targeting and disrupting a single player with it all game more than anything. Plus, a good Roadboat can jump as the magnet releases and stagger the opponent, likely long enough for the duration for the slightly longer cooldown before they use it again. At least that way if you want to chain magnets, you have to have some vehicle skill to pull it off.

Vadimony posted...
Nuke's important... Even to the few.

Make the weapons tweaks only affect vehicle targets, as I stated. Simple solution.

Vadimony posted...
I don't feel I have to explain all the aspects of just the health taxi properties.., lol.

Yes, you don’t need to. I summed it up well enough already. We wised up and stopped using them years ago. They slow the pace of the game down immensely, reward cowardly play, and provide an overpowered method to negate skillfully-dealt damage, simply by being a pansy and running to your medic who can return you from a sliver to full health within ten seconds.
This user is a proud Canadian.
PSN: Muddy_Maestro | XBL: Muddy Maestro

User Info: MuddyMaestro

MuddyMaestro
6 months ago#54
Vadimony posted...
At the end of the day, it's not used because it's just too hard. People suck with it, so they lose the trust in it.

So, there can be no relationship between the vehicle’s balance and players’ success with it? Okay, have fun thinking that I guess. In my experience, if nobody is using the vehicle widely understood as underpowered after many years, it would mean the vehicle is indeed underpowered.

Vadimony posted...
But self-stick remotes work... Why couldn't the same aspect work for RPGs?

Because both are cheap and mechanically broken. I’m not debating their usefulness (which it is overpowered, as those small annoyances mean little in comparison to an easy 120 DD or even more in a group), and the fact that it’s a glitch doesn’t mean anything either. Whether it’s a remote or a RPG, it’s a cheap tactic that everybody knows, but nobody uses. It has been phased out for good reason. Considering you’re the only one with a contradicting view of how we play competitive TDM, perhaps you should question if thousand or so players who determined these rules are the ones who were wrong, or if perhaps your logic is faulty.
This user is a proud Canadian.
PSN: Muddy_Maestro | XBL: Muddy Maestro
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