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    Counter-Hit FAQ by JScott

    Version: 1.0 | Updated: 03/04/96 | Search Guide | Bookmark Guide

    From: jts7@acpub.duke.edu (Jefferson T. Scott)
    Newsgroups: rec.games.video.arcade
    Subject: [TK2] Counter FAQ 1.0
    Date: Mon, 04 Mar 1996 15:12:35 -0500
    Here it is, y'all... the counter FAQ that I published in part a while
    back.  I had intended to make it a part of a Jack-2/P.Jack/Kuma FAQ, but
    it kind of evolved onto something all its own.
    Any archive/WWW maintainers: feelfree to include this on your
    pages if you deem it worthwhile.
    Thanks to mgofdd@blarg.net and Andy Eddy for making it available
    at their sites.
                            The Counter-Hit FAQ v1.0
                            Exclusively for Tekken 2
                           by Jefferson T. Scott (JTS)
       A. The Hits
          1. Blocked Hit
          2. Active Blocked Hit
          3. Basic Hit
          4. Counter Hit
          5. The phantom "Minor Counter Hit" 
       B. *EXAMPLE*
       C. The "Floating vs. Grounded" Explanation
       D. "Exceptions"
          1. "Why didn't I get a Flash?"
          2. "Why did I get a Flash for that?"
       E. Conclusions
       F. Credits
    The counterhit system in Tekken 2 is a very widely debated matter.  Now, 
    since I'm no Bill Gates, I don't plan on declaring anything I write as a 
    "standard," but I think I have a good way of looking at it.
            Through countless hours of play and observation (I have the good 
    fortune to work in an arcade) I have come to the conclusion that hit 
    detection can provide 4 results.  I have described all of these below, 
    and have also included a section on the phantom "Minor Counter" that some 
    people swear by, but which I say does not exist.  I explain why later, 
    but for now, on with it...
            1) Blocked hit
                    Yeah, this is fairly obvious, but for completeness it 
    needs to be in here.  This includes any contact between fighters that 
    results in the "grey flash."
            2) Active Blocked hit
                    This covers all of the "counters" that some characters 
    have, namely Wang, Nina, Paul, Anna, and Jun.  Any incoming "high" attack 
    that strikes during the brief "active block" or "counter" window is 
    counted as an active block, and the appropriate throw/counter is executed 
    by the blocking character.  The active block window is very small, and 
    leaves a short stun time afterwards during which the character is unguarded.
            3) Basic hit
                    This includes any hit which produces the "red flash" with 
    none of the other bells or whistles.  Any high or low stirke that 
    connects with the character while he is just standing there or moving 
    counts as a Basic Hit.  This is the base damage level for attacks.
            4) Counter hit
                    A Counter Hit is any attack (other than an unblockable) which 
    results in an "energy flash" accopanying the "red flash" of a hit.  This 
    occurs when one of your attacks connects with the opponents' frame while 
    he too is attacking.  One annoying example from personal experience 
    would be Kazuya crouchdash uppercutting one of Yoshi's kicks.  After 
    any basic or special character move (or throw attempt) there is also a 
    very small period of time in which a connecting attack will register as a 
    counter hit.
                    Counter hits typically do about 50% bonus damage above 
    the basic hit damage.  Sometimes, you will counterhit someone out of 
    their unblockable.  These seem not to be any special case, except that 
    the normal move damage yield in this event is double that of a Basic 
                    Some moves "stun on counterhit," that is, when they 
    connect as a counter, a slight stun is recieved, preventing blocking for 
    the other character and sometimes allowing different moves by the 
    attacker.  Examples are King's Stomach Smash (f,f, N, 2) and Paul's 
    Hammer (d+1).  Yeah, I know this is really called a "stone splitter" or 
    such, but this is my faq, eh?
            5) The phantom "Minor Counter Hit"
                    This is something that has come up quite a bit on 
    r.g.v.a, and I've done some testing.  The problem with the "Minor 
    Counter" is not in the counter system at all: it doesn't differentiate 
    between "major" and "minor" counters.
                    The confusion arises from a bit of program logic which I 
    find fascinating.  Apparently, when a character has a foot stuck out for 
    a high or mid kick, the computer treats them as being "in the air" as far 
    as hit detection is concerned.  This happens for many, but not all, high 
    kicks.  If the kick being executed is one of these, different results are 
    obtained when counter hitting them.
       B. EXAMPLE:  Paul's Hammer (d+1)
                    This little beauty is highly useful.  We've all seen it.  
    Now, when it enters the hit detection algorithm, these are the possible 
            -Blocked: defender was blocking high. RESULTS: nil.
            -Active Blocked: countered, by Jun or such. RESULTS: Begin "Smash 
    Punch" counter.
            -Basic Hit: defender was blocking low, or WALKING forward.  RESULTS: 
    NO STUN! Followup powerpunch can always be blocked.
            -Counter Hit: defender was executing (or drawing back from) an 
    attack, leaping, dashing/running, or crouch-dashing. 
                    Now, the results from this final category are what is in 
    question.  Sometimes you get no green flash and the person is stuck in a 
    stunned crouch.  Sometimes you get a green flash and the defender is 
    clobbered to the ground, bouncing, and you get an urge to yell, "Who's the 
    Daddy?!?! Who's the Daddy?!?!"  What's the difference?
                    They are both counterhits.  The difference is the move 
    they are countering.  If the move they counterhit is an "airborne-style" 
    (floating) kick or a leap, then the "float counter" result resolves.  
    Now, in this case the "float" is a crashing groundward smash, but the 
    terminology must be constant.  Otherwise, the "ground counter" effect 
    occurs, knocking them into a short stun wherein you are free to shove 
    your right fist halfway down the opponent's throat. The fact that no 
    green "counter flash" occurs here is due to the 'followup effect', which 
    is explained in section D.1.
    ***     END EXAMPLE
       C. The "Floating vs. Grounded" Explanation
                    The "ground" is the phantom "Minor Counter."  The "ground" 
    counter effect is usually less visually impressive than the "float" 
    effect, but is almost always more useful in terms of followup damage and 
    positional advantage (Heihachi excluded: juggling clown).
                    The two effects differ only visually, as far as I can 
    tell: the damage remains the same.
                    If you take issue with this analysis, please email me 
    with your complaints and counterarguments (no pun intended).  For now, 
    though, I will leave you with a few points to think about:
            -The Mishima's uppercuts float more and higher when they 
    counterhit an "off-balance," "airborne-style," or "floating" kick, as 
    opposed to hitting a crouching (Basic) or punching (Counter) opponent.
            -Some kicks (like Paul's standing LK, I believe, the one that sweeps 
    into the side of the head) just flash when they outrange an opponent's 
    puch for a counterhit, but they send the opponent flying if they hit out 
    of the air or an "off balance/floating" kick (like Nina's awkward standing 
                    I think all this info points towards the "floating vs. 
    grounded response" argument for the behavior of counterhits.  There is 
    _no_ such thing as a "minor counter." 
       D. "EXCEPTIONS"
    Admittedly, there are some times when Tekken is just a little bit 
    freaky.  But then again, who isn't?  I think most of these circumstances 
    can be handled by looking at the surrounding circumstances, and thinking 
    like a CPU.
          1. "Why didn't I get a Flash for that?"
            Sometimes, you just don't get a "funky flash" of whatever color 
    your character uses, when you pull off what seems to be a counter.  There 
    is a reason for this.
            Whenever this happens, there is _always_ (in my experience, that 
    is) another move that can automatically hit because of that counter-hit.  
    For example, Nina's falling leg Trip (d/b+3).  This can sometimes hit as a 
    Float or Ground counter.  If the opponent is high enough in the air on the 
    Float, or was execuing a crouching move when counterhit, then the Rising 
    Foot followup will automatically hit (this is done by hitting 4 during 
    the fall).
            You won't get a "flash" for the low falling kick, but you _will_ 
    get one for the rising kick followup.
            In general, it can be said that any move with preprogrammed 
    followups will only get a "counter flash" on the final hit.  Another good 
    example of this is Baek's triple jump kick: you can only connect on the 
    final hit if the first one is a counterhit.  Thus, the final hit will 
    give you a "counter flash" if the first part of that series was a 
    counter.  Paul's Hammer, Death Fist combo is another example.
          2. "Why did I get a flash for that?"
            This is somewhat related to the above argument.  Example, 
    Jack-2's Three Swipes combo (three standing punches).  Normally, this can 
    be blocked after the first hit.  If the first hit is a counter though, it 
    will give a green "counter flash" and the opponent will have to eat all 
    three punches.  The last punch will also give a "counter flash."  The 
    reason for this is given above.
            Sometimes, though, the flashes just always happen.  Paul's 
    "Falling Leaf Combo" will always yield a yellow "counter flash" if the 
    elbow connects on a falling opponent (after a hit with the sweep).  
            Sometimes, this is explained by the fact that the sweep was a 
    counterhit, but that's usually not the case.  In fact, any "sky juggle" 
    is interpreted to be a counterhit.  That's why you get flashes for some 
    of the followups in Wang and Michelle combos.
            **Note: the computer is not very consistent in what it classifies 
    as a "sky juggle." The best indication I can see is that the target must 
    be falling from a certain height, or landing headfirst on the ground.
    Examples of the first would be followups to Jack-2's catapult Throw or Bravo 
    Knuckle.  Examples of the second (headfirst) would be the Falling Leaf, 
    and Lei's sweep followed with either the jumping spin kick or straight 
    Toe Kick followups.  Both connect with an opponent falling onto his head 
    (headfirst), and both result in "counter flashes."
            Use Those Counters!  Even the slowest opponents have highly 
    useful moves for counterhits.  I cannot tell you how many times I have 
    sent people flying with Jack-2's Bravo Knuckle.  It ducks under _all_ 
    high attacks! Timed right, followed with a free heavy pounce, this move 
    is devastating.  Even Kuma and P.Jack get in the action with the Bear 
    Heaven Cannon and Hammer/Fist combos, respectively.  And don't even get 
    me started about Kuni's spinning Left Kick.  Beautiful!
            Everyone has neat moves to crouch in under attacks, step in 
    during an attack's retraction, or hop over sweep attacks.  Find these, 
    and use them well.  Timing and psychology are the keys here.
            As for "float counters" and "sky counters," well, don't lose 
    sleep over the latter.  These are just nice bonus easter eggs when they 
    happen, and you can't really control them.  Float counters, though, can 
    be very useful, and are Heihachi's bread and butter! Some of his biggest, 
    most outlandish combos won't connect unless he starts them with and 
    extra-high Float Counter.
            Practice!  Don't take the Tekken FAQ's word for it on the combos: 
    the best ones are not preprogrammed.  Use Float Counters to gain extra 
    air time in which to pound your opponent.  Watch for their vulnerable 
    moves (Lei's Crescent Roundhouse, Kazuya's Jumpkick-DoubleSweep-MidKick, 
    Law's flipkick, etc.) and sneak in a counterhit.  Most counterhits force 
    them to lay on the ground long enough for you to get in a pounce, so with 
    the extra damage, life becomes painful for your opponents in a hurry.
       E. CREDITS
    Brian F.,               for countering me more than I'd like
    Brian P.,               for an evil bitch Jun that always makes a nice
                            "crunch" when she dies
    Burly                   His Lei is Easy Pickin's for Jack-s
    Everyone else           For paying my paycheck.  If I didn't have this job
      at Devil's Quarters   I might actually have to WORK.
    Everyone Who Wrote to   
      Me after the Adon     For convincing me that I should write another one
      Guide came out,       of these silly things.  See what you get?
    Namco,                  for showing that someone besides Sega can make a
                            good 3-d fighting game.
    mgofdd@blarg.net        For putting this on his web page first.
    This version (and any updates) of this FAQ can currently be found here:
    ANDY EDDY's ftp faq site:  ftp.netcom.com/pub/vi/vidagames/faqs/tek2cntr.txt
    The EXCELLENT Tekken WWW:  http://www.blarg.net/~mgofdd/tekken.html
    Feel free to put this in any archive, compendium, or compilation you 
    want.  Distribute as you see fit, but don't charge for it.  Just make 
    them pay in the ring. :)

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